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Crooks And Liars
My One And Only Post About Electoral Reform
It's brilliant and stupid at the same time. It's so practical, it's practically perfect; but it's also ludicrous, and it’s impossible to imagine that it could ever be implemented. Welcome to my one and only post about electoral reform.
You can read the rest here, and/or comment below.
Comments
Hypothetical
Yes, it frightens me when I hear a bunch of coconuts talking and I think, "These people vote"!
Given that this is hypothetical, who would set the questions and answers? In the case it could be done, I think both parties would provide "cheat sheets" with the answers. The fact that the answers contradicted the propoganda would not register with the average voter, anyway, and the parties would know that.
The need is clear, though; to get the scales to fall from peoples' eyes. For them to see clearly that it is not Grandma with the big ears and the big teeth looking at them from under Grandma's bonnet. But how to do it?
Depending on who you read, there are between 1/4 and 1/3 of the population who are psychopaths/sociopaths and their followers who will do their bidding. That leaves a very clear majority of people who will respond to co-operative efforts to increase the well being of everyone. But how to reach them?
Frankly, I think the answer lies outside the electoral system. Why play a rigged game? There must be another way. The electoral system is the effect of causes outside it. Identify, study then undermine, nullify or replace those causes.
more hypotheticals
The questions and answers would be prepared by a neutral body. There would be a fairly large number of questions, only a few of which would appear on each ballot. Some of the questions would be standard: How long does a president's term last? How many Senators does your state have? Which house of congress can appropriate funds? and so on. But there would also be questions with local content: Who's your congressman? How many congressmen does your state have? and so on ... And a handful of questions would be selected more or less at random for each ballot. Therefore each ballot-quiz would be more or less unique, and there would be no way to prepare a cheat sheet for your "coconuts".
ALSO: this is very important but didn't make it into the post: all elections would be INSTANT RUNOFF.
As Bob Koehler explains in his most recent column
it encourages the proliferation of third parties [and empowers them -- WP] because their role is now no longer that of counterproductive spoiler; voters [...] could vote their consciences without fear of “throwing their vote away.” And it outright eliminates at least part of the reason why campaigns “go negative.” Candidates whose views are relatively close to one another’s are a team rather than mortal enemies; picture Gore vs. Nader in 2000, where the Democrats vented far more spleen on the Greens, to the detriment of both, than they did on the party of Bush. With instant runoff voting, the Dems would have courted Green voters as their second choice.
And here’s where I think such a system would really show its value. It guarantees a voice for candidates who likely will not win. Right now, such candidates are mockingly dismissed as irrelevant, though often they’re the ones who best articulate voters’ deeply held beliefs.
Speak of the Devil
From Chris Hedges (link via A Tiny Revolution)-
"Our oligarchic class is incompetent at governing, managing the economy, coping with natural disasters, educating our young, handling foreign affairs, providing basic services like health care and safeguarding individual rights. That it is still in power, and will remain in power after this election, is a testament to our inability to separate illusion from reality. We still believe in “the experts.” They still believe in themselves. They are clustered like flies swarming around John McCain and Barack Obama. It is only when these elites are exposed as incompetent parasites and dethroned that we will have any hope of restoring social, economic and political order. "
More here-
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081020_the_idiots_who_rule_america/
Of course, this same "oligarchic class" is behind (and always has been) the ubiquitous two-party variation of democracy through which it rules.
with all due respect to Chris Hedges...
this is hogwash:
Our oligarchic class is incompetent at governing, managing the economy, coping with natural disasters, educating our young, handling foreign affairs, providing basic services like health care and safeguarding individual rights.
It's not that they are incompetent at doing these things. It's that all these things are inimical to their interests, and they understand this very well. So they don't do them; they only pretend to do them; in reality they do the opposite.
Take education, for instance. A highly educated underclass would be of no benefit to the ruling class, but it would be very dangerous.
Lenin tried to kill them all
Lenin tried to kill them all. Stalin tried harder. Neither man seems to have considered the fact that if he really wanted to kill them all, he'd have to kill himself as well.
More and more I think it's human nature, and for that reason we will never escape it. I think the great question of the present age can be stated this way: Science could save us from ourselves by enabling us to move off-planet. But can science enable us to move off-planet before we manage to kill ourselves?
I'd like to hang around and watch the drama play itself out, but it may be that we're lucky if we die before the shakedown. It's shapin' up to be a mighty rough ride.
You're right about the civics tests, WP. I'm convinced that universal suffrage is just a really mean joke played upon Andrew Jackson by those whom he detested.
Jimmy
"It may be thought that I am prejudiced. Perhaps I am. I would be ashamed of myself if I were not." Mark Twain
They want obedient workers
WP, that's an admirable
WP, that's an admirable proposal, and it both draws me in, and makes me pause. It relies upon the meritocratic impulse that our public schooling tells us is the essence of America -- work hard and you get ahead. Learn government, and you get to vote.
So who will get to write the pre-vote quiz?
control
If the People were behind something like this it could be done, because they do have control. They could issue boycotts, strikes, vigilante justice against politicians. But the People are split on everything, as randomly as a coin flip, that's the way the binary system works. I've been saying this same thing, about having to pass a test vote, though I was thinking pass/fail and I like your graded idea better. But the People don't want that, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY ARE IGNORANT. So if you mean that thoughtful people don't have control then I agree, but if you think that only the elites are holding back all the people from a knowledge promoting system then I disagree. The other problem is that I know plenty of people who have a working knowledge of government and world affairs, and yet still gleefully support one or the other faction of The Party. The emotional issues would seem to be paramount.
YES ... and NO!
if you mean that thoughtful people don't have control then I agree,
YES, that's what I mean ... er ... that's one of the things I mean!
but if you think that only the elites are holding back all the people from a knowledge promoting system then I disagree.
NO! I don't think that at all.
Who gets to administer the questions?
What if the same folks who've benefited from the lying, got to write the quiz?
Suddenly you have to be absolutely wrong to have your vote count...!
Call me a pessimist but the arbiters of truth are ever subject to the same corruption that poisons our world now.
I would write the quiz
and you would never have to tell a lie to get your vote counted.
ludicrous, right?
It doesn't make any
It doesn't make any difference who sets the questions. Interested outside parties will game it. That's the American way. Just like push-polling. Public financing of elections is a better idea.
So we're a nation of morons. You got a problem with that?
public financing, YES!
and public administation too!!
thoroughly hypothetical, but one can dream, no?
Election day should be a
Election day should be a national holiday.
No work save fire, police, etc.
$100 (more? less?) return on one's taxes for voting.
Won't happen, though.
Maybe free beer and sandwiches, too.
("Our oligarchic class is
("Our oligarchic class is incompetent at governing, managing the economy, coping with natural disasters, educating our young, handling foreign affairs, providing basic services like health care and safeguarding individual rights."
It's not that they are incompetent at doing these things. It's that all these things are inimical to their interests, and they understand this very well. So they don't do them; they only pretend to do them; in reality they do the opposite. )
Yes, they do do the opposite - by appointing the corrupt and the incompetent. Whether Hedges is alive to this, I don't know. It was actually Jonathan Schwarz's comment on Hedge (which I forgot to include) that caught my eye.
Nope. I was gunna quote it here but thought there are too many points to quibble about. I think the fundamental point is that we have been scammed. The whole structure (hierarchies) and ethos (individuality and competition) of our society is a scam and we are victims of it. We've been trained into victimhood since birth and few realise it. The most we ever do about it is whinge and bitch about it.
Exercise for the day - pay attention to how much victimisation every body you see today accepts. The electoral system with its abuses is an effect of this mindset.
My god it's brilliant
WP - this is a great idea
Like others are saying it would depend a lot on who gets to ask the questions, what the questions are and what the 'answers' are decided to be
Anyone got any ideas how you could make the questions non-partisan?
non-partisan questions
there are all sorts of non-partisan questions that could be asked:
Who is your member of congress?
How long is his/her term in office?
How many members of congress does your state have?
Who are your senators?
How long do their terms last?
How many senators are there in the entire senate?
How many members of congress are there?
Which house of congress can appropriate funds?
Which house of congress can initiate impeachment proceedings?
Who can appoint judges to the supreme court?
How long do these judges serve?
...
and on and on and on ... straight civics.
There's nothing particularly partisan about any of it -- unless one party or the other has been lying about things like this ...
It wouldn't take much effort to formulate hundreds of questions involving agreed-upon facts from world history and geography, most of which I daresay would stump most of "my fellow Americans", such as
Djibouti is part of what continent?
Do Serbia and Nicaragua share a common border?
What is the name of the region in dispute between Pakistan and India?
In what year did the Soviet Union invade Czechoslovakia?
True or False: Zimbabwe is the capital of Rhodesia?
and so on ...
I'm not saying it would be perfect, and even if it were implemented, we may still find ourselves outvoted by vicious dolts, but at least they'd be well-informed vicious dolts.
Great Idea!
Great idea WP.
I like the the national holiday with free beer and sandwiches idea as well. Maybe you could combine it with the civics quiz - make it into a beer drinking game. If you get the question wrong you have to drink. Then only the sober people are allowed to vote.
We used to have election laws in Canada that made sure everyone was given time off work etc., to go vote. I believe that is no longer the case. They just have the polls open longer now.
Based on your last set of questions "Djibouti is part of what continent?..." there might be some slim pickens finding people who qualify to vote.
You might need to give people access to google!
Good dreaming like good ideas are nice tho...
"I set it down,
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain..." -- Shakespeare, Hamlet, I, v
I'm also thinking...
I'm also thinking that people who run for office should be required to pass some kind of civics competency test (or perhaps course) as well.
"I set it down,
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain..." -- Shakespeare, Hamlet, I, v
"Based on your last set of
"Based on your last set of questions "Djibouti is part of what continent?..." there might be some slim pickens finding people who qualify to vote. You might need to give people access to google"
...not really, it even 'sounds' African...
Anyways...
My only suggestion...
(Smith/Dickinson/Harris)
Yeah! Another Prophet of Disaster
Who says the ship is lost,
Another Prophet of Disaster
Leaving you to count the cost.
Taunting us with Visions,
Afflicting us with fear,
Predicting war for millions,
In the hope that one appears.
(Bridge)
No point asking when it is,
No point asking who's to go,
No point asking what's the game,
No point asking who's to blame.
'Cause if you're gonna die (If you're gonna die) If you're gonna die,
(If you're gonna die) If you're gonna die (If you're gonna die) If you're gonna die...
(Chorus)
If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.
If you're gonna try, well stick around,
Gonna cry, just move along,
If you're gonna die, you're gonna die,
Gonna die! Die with your boots on,
If you're gonna try, well stick around,
Gonna cry, just move along,
If you're gonna die, you're gonna die!
13, the Beast is rising,
The Frenchman did surmise,
Through earthquakes and starvation,
The warlord will arise.
Terror, death, destruction,
Pour from the Eastern Sands,
But the truth of all predictions,
Is always in your hands.
(Repeat Bridge and Chorus)
(Guitar solo - Dave Murray)
They died with their boots on, yes they died...
They died! They die with their boots on, they die...
We die! We die! We die! We die! We die!
(Guitar solo - Adrian Smith)
(Repeat Bridge)
If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.
If you're gonna try and try then just stick around,
Gonna cry, just move along,
If you're gonna die, you're gonna die
Gonna die! Die with your boots on,
If you're gonna try, well stick around,
Gonna cry, just move along,
If you're gonna die... Die!
Could have been clearer??
I didn't mean just that question. I guess I could have been clearer and said "starting with "Djibouti..". I meant that you might have some difficulty finding voters knowledgeable about international affairs or of the world outside the US borders.
"I set it down,
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain..." -- Shakespeare, Hamlet, I, v
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